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Focal 165W
May 12 '02
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Pros
excellent sound quality, detail, midbass, impact
Cons
none
The Bottom Line
If you are looking for some of the top car audio speakers in the world these
are it.
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Full Review |
Here is my system lay out. Pioneer DEH9400MP, Brax X1400
bridged delivering 200 watts rms x2 to the mids, one ARC Audio 2500XCL
bridged on one ID MAX 12in woofer in a sealed box. After dynamatting my
doors then installing the Focal woofer in the doors and setting the tweeters
up it was time to have some fun. I set the eq and got out some music. At
first I didnt cross the drivers over just to test their limits. Well they
dont really have any. They played VERY low and when turned up the bass
coming from the doors would vibrate your pants. After not believing that all
of the bass was just coming from the doors since the sub was off I showed a
few friends. NONE of them believed that they were just hearing the door
speakers. After playing we then crossed them over @ 70HZ so we could play
more vocals through them with out them having the duty of playing bass too.
I used 5 different cds. Three of the cds were Focal disc 1, 3, and 4. The
other two discs were Madonnas Imaculate Collection and the Iasca 01 disc.
Every track blew me away. They played everything you gave them. The
crossovers had the tweeters turned on the lowest setting since i my self am
not a fan of treble. The tweeters are some of the best ive heard yet. They
played very crisp and detailed and there was not a single bit of harshness.
The midrange part of the tracks sounded awesome. Over all the speakers let
you hear parts of your favorite songs you didnt even know existed. Parts of
songs you remember now sound different and sounds more real. Your music
comes alive with these speakers. I recommend these speakers to ANYONE who
wants some of the best speakers on the car audio market.
Recommended
Yes
Price
(Aus$): 1044.00 (footnote: these
speakers now superceded by 165K2P Aus$849 with improved sound quality over
165W)
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Focal 165W Car Component System
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Reviewed by 2 Epinions users |
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Review Summary |
About the
Author |
There's no getting better than this (but does
it have to be SO expensive?)
May 20 '02 (Updated May 20 '02)
Author's Product Rating
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Pros
NO two-way set I know of or have heard compares; truly
unparalleled sound.
Cons
Expensive and big, perhaps requiring customized installations;
inefficient, needs LARGE quantities of power.
The Bottom Line
The 165Ws are likely the best two-ways mobile speakers that
you'll savor today; IF there are any better, I certainly don't
know what they are.
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Full Review |
(Note: Focal's own website has no such
reference to a 7" speaker system. The large driver is
officially only a 6 1/2" sized unit; where epinions gets their
info...)
'Utopia' is actually a very appropriate name for this line of
mobile speakers from Focal, a highly-respected speaker
manufacturer out of France. Their mobile speakers are considered
by many as the very best there is, period. I'm not entirely sure
about that, but their two-way Utopia 165Ws are, for a lack of a
more direct term, IT for me, if only because there's no
way to fit a set of Focal's three-way 165W3s without a complete
remodel of the front half of my car's passenger compartment.
They blow away all comers I've listened to now and in the past,
from the best that Boston Acoustics, a/d/s, Diamond, and MB
Quart have to offer. And though they're close, I also prefer
them over the best that Dynaudio, another fine European maker,
has in its lineup.
These makers represent a premier shortlist that most certainly
would have once included the two-year old a/d/s 335is two-ways
separates I just had removed from the front stage of my car's
audio system. While I've always approved of the sound emanating
from a/d/s drivers (the old, now classic 320i two-ways are still
an old favorite that warms the soul, even if only in faded
memory), the current crop of designs just isn't at the same
level as Focal, seemingly trapped in some sort of time warp from
the mid 1980s (the time of the 320is, BTW), when I think the
best and most innovative work that a/d/s ever did was achieved.
In the coming weeks, these trusty but now middle-of-the-road
a/d/s separates may find themselves on eBay making someone
else's ears quite happy and pleased if I can't convince my
significant other that they should find another life in our
Passat. But that only works if that potential bidder has never
listened to or auditioned any of the Focal Utopia two-way
separate systems beforehand. Because unfortunately if that
person is a musical perfectionist--just like poor, pitiful
me--they will likely never be satisfied with listening to
anything else again.
At $1100/pair full retail, these Focal 165Ws should better be
amongst the best mobile audio speakers around. Fortunately,
their level of performance backs the price. The Utopias are made
by Focal-JMLabs, and have lately enjoyed being amongst the most
highly desirable speaker systems of top-end mobile audio buffs.
And it truly is for good reason: these speakers perform,
really perform, done superbly with virtuosity and deftness
that has no peer. Whilst this sort of gushing isn't new for me
(I tend to go overboard a bit too much over these sorts of toys,
according to friends), Focal speaker sets are simply works of
audio engineering artistry, both in their high performance level
and in their solid engineering and construction. Gearheads take
heed: their appearance and technical and material advancements
alone are quite impressive. But the ultimate proof is in their
sonic performance; without question, the powerful, bewitchingly
intoxicating sound of the Focal Utopia 165Ws has to make this
product line one of the top two or three mobile speaker systems
in all of car audio.
Breaking down this two-way separates system, one channel of the
165Ws consists of a 6 1/2" diameter, multi-layered polymer-coned
midbass/woofer driver, and a 2" titanium domed, fluid-cooled
tweeter (though they don't look 2" to me). Both are
coupled to a single-channel crossover equipped with multiple
adjustment levels. Multiply the assembly by two and this is
pretty much what $1100 buys you, less installation. For those
spec freaks, frequency response is a relatively wide 50Hz -
22,000Hz, and the system operates at an impedance of 3.7 ohms,
nominally. The tweeter can either be surface or flushed mounted
as shipped from the factory. The midbass/woofer itself is, ahem,
dimensionally challenged; that is, even for a 6 1/2" diameter
driver, it's a big assembly, and it's not uncommon for that
dreaded word "custom" to crop up if you're planning on
having a shop do the installation work. Grilles are provided for
all the drivers.
The Fun and Great Stuff...
The sonic quality of the 165Ws is indeed awe-inspiring.
Audiophile-worthy is a too painfully weak description. With most
any great-to-excellently recorded and mastered musical material,
these Focals most definitely stand apart from virtually all
other manufacturers. Tonal qualities are the best I've ever
heard from a two-way separates system, and even surpass a great
many high-end three-way separates sets. There is a richness and
depth to their sound that is so markedly above all others that
is difficult to accurately describe; it must be experienced to
really appreciate. Instruments and voices are SO convincingly
real and accurate, detail is so clear and punctuated. But what
really makes these speakers far and above everyone else's is the
mere presence of the sonic experience, the punctuation
and precision of the noises coming from these drivers is what
has you spellbound. You hear AND feel the musical truth coming
from within these speakers.
I tend to think that the Focals show off their best with complex
material; symphonic pieces or heavily multi-layered tracks are
what the 165Ws recreate with such surprising adeptness; details
are stunningly crisp and precise, and are so obvious to identify
and single out. This is something that most persons have to be
unaccustomed to hearing from a car stereo system, given the
nature of all others that has come before. Particular pieces of
the musical source are reproduced with such surprising clarity,
whether a lone flute against the backdrop of a chamber grouping,
or a solo violin in counterpoint to a full philharmonic
orchestra, or a vocal against a big band accompaniment, or even
a emotion-drenched singer against a wail of multiple guitar
solos and overdubs. The sound is vibrant, yet is convincing in
its naturalness. Even more fascinating is that fact that so many
other bits of the music you might have easily missed while
listening on lesser speakers are so easy to pick out on the
Focals. But the 165Ws also work extremely good with quieter,
more intimate passages. The timbre and depth that these speakers
can convey freezes me; these are classic goosebump makers here.
No music type seems to present problems for these 165Ws. While I
listen primarily to many forms of rock, throwing a violin
concerto by Bach or a Miles Davis session into the CD player
shows just how rewarding these speakers can be. Even techno,
hip-hop, industrial or any of the countless subgroupings of
these categories of music that rely heavily on synthesizer and
computer technology sounds good (a relative term, since much of
this, especially the club dance stuff, is garbage to me. Disco
is STILL disco, no matter how one tries to disguise it and
remove it from the '70s).
Music that has strong vocals and acoustical instrumentation is
where I hear the pronounced differences between the 165Ws and
other speaker systems. Whether Alan Jackson, Lucinda Williams,
Diana Krall, Sting, Norah Jones, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Kurt
Cobain, or any of the countless others whose powerful, touching
voices have influenced our lives, these Focals bring out the
best in these artists' performances and recordings. The same can
be said if you listen to Branford Marsalis, Itzak Pearlman,
Herbie Hancock, Joe Satriani, Jeff Beck, George Winston, Stan
Getz, or any other instrumental virtuoso; these speakers are as
faithful as they come in recreating the sounds that these
artists intended in the manner that they wanted them to be heard
in.
When it comes down to it, the 6 1/2" drivers of the Utopia
series are what really sells this design, in my opinion. These
deliver so much of the musical information, and do the job so
incredibly well. Moreover, they almost void the need for a
subwoofer; there's so much tight bass coming out of them that
the low end bass that the sub provides may not be missed by
many, though I tend to think that at least one good sub still
needs to be in the mix to finish off the bottom end. As for the
tweeters, I admit I've never been much of a fan of
metallic-based drivers, so I was at the very first more than a
bit ambivalent towards the Focal's titanium design. But it turns
out they sound truly marvelous, with no hint of the sorts of
harshness that I recalled from ancient examples of the type that
my brain had logged and had unfairly tainted the initial opinion
of these tweeters. But as I said, the proof is indeed in the
performance.
And then, there's The Bad...
There's a price for all this, and it can be (no, it IS) rather
steep, even beyond the price of admission for the 165Ws alone.
Focals are not the most efficient speakers around and need
serious power to perform at their peak, the more of it the
better. They are rated for use at a minimum 100 watts per
channel continuous RMS (200 wpc peak power), and the cleaner
that power (read: pricier), the better off you'll be. As it is,
the 165Ws made mincemeat out of the existing 4-channel Nakamichi
amplifier (rated at 60 wpc x 4, probably a peak rating). The amp
can be easily driven to clipping at sound levels far lower than
the old, more efficient a/d/s separates were able to provide.
This is better, making a $800 amp sound THIS BAD? Well, no, but
then Focal was up front about the fact that these speakers were
supposed to be driven with a lot more beef, which is really my
fault for not realizing this sooner. I had to do that stepping
up to the plate business again...
Turns out the solution I decided upon took shape as an added
upgrade; for me, it's in the form of a new Xtant X603 amplifier;
a massive, polished stainless steel three-channel behemoth of an
amp conservatively rated at 75 wpc x 2, with the third rated at
150 wpc, all the while into a 4 ohm load. To make room for this
monster, the monoblock (that word yet again!) design
third channel replaces the service my old Xtant 250 wpc sub amp
provided (plus, it needed the real estate where the old amp
resided just to fit in the car), and will be set to operate at
300 wpc into the 2 ohm load that my subwoofer demands. Aside
from the sonic qualities I like about the new Xtant, the
X-series gives an installer tremendous flexibility in
fine-tuning the total system, with multiple internal adjustments
and optional (read: more money) plug-in accessory modules
available. For instance, the Focals bottom out at 50 hz; the
Xtant can easily be configured to start the subwoofer where the
Focals stop, or if wanted, the X603 can easily be set to
low-pass with a notch of overlap if so desired, in case the
fall-off between the midbass drivers of the speakers and sub is
too obvious, which fortunately with the Focals is NOT a problem
at all. Running the 165Ws in the showroom off the X603, the
Xtant showed that it could easily handle whatever the Focals
demanded of it, with superb definition of detail and depth to
boot. The old Nak continues on to run the rear infill speakers
in a bridged, 2-channel mode. Though I could've spent
significantly less, I didn't, instead letting my ear guide my
decision. It's another $1400 (amp plus shop installation and
cabling extras) I hadn't counted on spending, on top of casting
aside an existing, perfectly working piece of equipment.
Almost as much of a groaner are the problems created with the
adapting of a 6 1/2" driver (worse yet, a big 6 1/2" driver)
into a mount opening meant for something sized a fair bit
smaller. Serious shop time (as well as
structural/functional/fabrication modifications to the front
doors) was involved, and excluded any realistic shot of me doing
the installation myself, not that I really wanted the
opportunity to ruin a set of $1000+ speakers BEFORE I even had
the chance to actually use them. In truth, people who can easily
afford these speakers probably won't flinch at the added labor
costs, but let's just say to have these 165Ws properly installed
by a professional you can easily add well over $1000 to the
bill, effectively doubling the price just for the addition to
your car of these speakers alone.
The midbass units ultimately are hidden in the car's factory
speaker mountings and enclosures, complete with a comprehensive
amount of Dynamat isolation infill padding in the doors, with
the tweeters discretely flush mounted nearby, though I've yet to
do something about covering up the Focal nameplate on the trim
rings yet (discrete but not quite discrete enough). While the
metallic drivers will likely hold up better against UV rays than
the polymer tweeters that the previous a/d/s speakers utilized,
they tend to look rather garish with an near aluminum foil
reflectivity, even behind the little tweeter grills. Some may
think they look cool, but I'm not one of those who thinks this
way.
The outcome out of all this..
These are tremendous speakers, make no mistake about it; these
are as good as it gets, achieving an absolute performance level
better than even far pricier offerings. They do everything I'd
expect a premium audio component to do, sounding fantastic will
all types of music, even those types I'm not at all fond of
(except Britney; there's not a thing that can do anything with
that voice of hers). But despite their fabulous performance
levels I still debated on whether they're really something I'd
recommend to a friend, as epinions asks of us reviewers. They
demand for high amounts of power, which in my case I didn't have
to begin with, thus incurring even more expenses. They are
expensive in and of themselves. They can easily require
customization just to get the units to fit. Their up-front costs
don't invite the average do-it-yourselfer to install on their
own. But they DO sound really, REALLY good, which for me makes
up for nearly all of their sins. Their sheer musical presence
almost excuses any flaws in imaging and soundstage tuning (I
said almost; this is one area I cut back at this time
on. The custom kickplate work recommended for the tweeter
mountings, as well as the EQ module for the new amp were pieces
I decided to hold on, thus saving $800. However, at some point
to really get things perfect...bad monoblocks, bad boy...).
Sonically, they easily hold their own against anything else the
world has to offer. But it pays to be rich. Or just to have hit
the lottery.
Recommended (with caveats).
(One thing I forgot: between the Focals and the new Xtant,
burned audio CDs sound absolutely wretched. I don't know if the
discs from dedicated audio CD burners are any better, but the
computer-created examples I've done are now REALLY the pits.)
Recommended
Yes
Retail Price (Aus$): 1044
(footnote: these speakers now superceded by 165K2P Aus$849)
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Focal 165 V2 Car Component System
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Overall rating:
Reviewed by 1 Epinions user |
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Read Review of Focal 165 V2 Car Component System |
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Review Summary |
About the
Author |
Excellent speakers.
Nov 19 '04 (Updated Dec 01 '04)
Author's Product Rating
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Pros
Very detailed sound even at low volumes. Low price comparing to
higher series.
Cons
none
The Bottom Line
If you're looking for quality first, you can't go wrong with
these speakers.
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Full Review |
I've been reading a lot about focal speakers.
I wanted pro sound but my budget was limited. I knew utopia and
k series were next to perfect but I wasn't sure about the
cheaper polyglass series. Got'em anyway. I'm using Alpine
MRV-F407 amplifier. And Pioneer Premier deh-960mp head unit. I
like rock and metal, drummers and guitarists.
I've been using pro studio monitor speakers for recording and
mixing.I am used to hearing detailed sound, but not in car
stereo, at least until now.
The detail was amazing. A simple conclusion was "that's it, I
don't need anything more". I close my eyes and hear all the
instruments take their places in my car. I hear drums playing
next to me, cymbals make you say "wow", guitars are very strong
but a little more mid bass wouldn't be bad. If you like rock and
metal you may need an extra set of rear mid speakers. This is a
very minor issue, just to point out how could it get better. I'm
sure utopias are better, but I doubt they'll surprise me now.
There is a switch on crossovers that lets you run these speakers
on different db levels. Setting these levels up is useful when
speaker positions are low to ears. I couldn't adjust the eq for
better result. I use flat eq because these speakers are
perfectly balanced. There is of course the need for an extra
subwoofer. I use my subwoofer filtered to 160hz ,-18db or 125hz
-12db. I also recommend using sealed enclosure box for quick and
tight bass response if you like to hear clear double bass drum
like myself.
These speakers have/boast an amazingly good price to quality
ratio. Everytime I play music to a friend for the first time
through my new speakers, the result is same: They can't believe
that the sound is coming from 2 sets of speakers in the factory
locations on front doors. I get excited each and every time,
too.
Recommended
Yes
Retail Price (Aus$): 449.00
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Focal Access 165CA Coaxial Car Speaker
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Overall rating:
Reviewed by 1 Epinions user |
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Read Review of Focal Access 165CA Coaxial Car Speaker |
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Review Summary |
About the
Author |
99.5% aural heaven...
Dec 01 '03
Author's Product Rating
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Pros
simply amazing sound for someone with a 30-50watt/channel headunit.
Cons
not the easiest to install without help or good knowledge of your
car.
The Bottom Line
if you're starting out down the road to audio perfection, this is a
great place to start. but as always, you should judge with your own
ears.
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Full Review |
as someone who's had factory speakers all their
life, this is a HUGE step in the right direction. and very cool,
because this is my first car, too!
i listened to these speakers at a local Cartoys, one of those "i'll
never afford these, but it'd be nice to hear what elite speakers
sound like" kind of things. Well, they sounded better than the
Infinitys i was looking at, but it was a chore to compare the two as
the headunit's eq had to be changed to get optimal sound from each.
However, once these were flatlined across the board, these Focals
were amazing sounding. Bass wasn't overdone, yet you could push it
quite hard if you wanted to, and the highs were crystal clear
without being harsh or painful. and that was all powered off just
the headunit.
a little while later, my headunit and the sub i'd grown very fond of
was stolen, so, after i got my money (thank God for comprehensive!)
i decided i should go with normal speakers after remembering how
much bass they could put out, I bought a pair of 165CA However, after taking off the
speaker covers, i realized that it wasn't a simple swapping of
speakers. after many weeks of putting off getting them installed, i
finally went to Best Buy to get it installed. needless to say it
wasn't very simple for them, either. a $40 job ended up costing $60
as they had to remove quite a bit of plastic from the speaker
baskets and even some metal, too. turns out these speakers are
larger than 6.5" .. more like 6.75" due to the .. er .. back of the
speaker (i don't remember what the installer said, and i'm no expert
in speaker terminology).
once all was said and done, i drove home to the most amazing sound
i've ever heard in a car. the highs were a little harsh as the
speakers needed breaking in, but even then it sounded .. gorgeous. i
could hear the crunch of electric guitars, details in vocals i
hadn't heard before, the gravel in a scratch, i can finally almost
consistently hear flaws in MP3s @ 192kbps i've only heard a in a
small handful of tracks before (depending on the genre).
that said, you owe it to yourself to listen to at least some
Infinitys, if not these Focals. they are mellow, yet bright and
powerful. the Sonys and Pioneers everyone seems to stock just seem
to sound like powerful factory speakers. ick. even the Rockford
Fosgates failed to impress me as well (even though they make one
hell of a sub), however noone seemed to carry Pioneer and RF's
highend speakers, so it really isn't a completely fair to blanket
Pioneer or RF in with their crappier speakers.
well, one last thing. as with all purchases, listen for yourself.
don't just go by the reviews and what other people said (you DID
read what other people have said about what you are buying didn't
you? ;) go by what your ears tell you. bring all kinds of music
you'll listen to and don't be afraid to spend 30 mins or more at a
caraudio store to have a good audition. oh, and enjoy
them, too!
Recommended
Yes
Price (Aus$): 239.00 (footnote: this model now superceded by
165CA1 Aus RRP $179)
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